Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Follow Up Comments to a Classmate's Blog

A friend and future classmate, Agent Kermit who writes the FINANTIC blog in my links section, posted answers to questions he received from a reader. His answers are top notch and I think great reading. I have a few comments I'd like to make as well, which is the nature of this post. The original question is in blue, AK's answer in italics and my comment in bold. Also, like AK wrote in his blog, remember that I have yet to go through the program, so what I write here should not be taken as any kind of gospel. Enjoy!

a. How good is MiF, LBS? I mean without an opportunity to intern with an iBank / hedge fund what are your chances of getting into a bulge bracket ibank?

I think doing an internship increases your chances of getting into a bulge bracket i-bank or a hedge fund considerably. This is specially the case if you do not have any work experience in the type of firm you want to work at. LBS MiF program has a requirement that you have at least 2 years of finance experience, but they are pretty vague about that requirement. You could have been working for the IT group in a commercial bank for 2 years and still be admitted to MiF. Operative term being "could have been" since LBS admissions solely makes the decision.

If you think you do not have the right amount of experience, or if you want to make a significant career move, I urge you to consider the MBA program instead. It's a 2 year program, and you have great chance to do an internship between years 1 and 2.

When I go to London, I will root for LBS to support pre-MiF internships since I've gone through a lot of trouble securing this internship, and also getting the administrative stuff done (such as visas). Oxford MFE program on the other hand, provides help for their students to get an internship before the program starts without even asking for it.

I fully agree that if you think you do not have the right experience or some other edge to make you attractive to the recruiters, then an MBA is better. Going in to the MiF without direct experience is a higher risk as these is no internship period, but this can be offset by other things you do. Can you speak a language in high demand like Mandarin or Arabic for instance? This kind of thing can help you land a job even without an internship. This approach is certainly not for the faint of heart though.

b. In your blog you had mentioned that only 30% - 40% of the MiF students get placed through the milk rounds. The rest have to find jobs on their own. This does make me feel extremely insecure. Does this mean that the school does not support the students in anyway?

That's the number I've got from a current MiF student. I think it's more empirical than a rock solid number. But yes, since the timing of milk rounds is a little awkward, not many MiF students get a job offer. Reminder, the first milk round is mainly for full time job offers and takes place sometime around November. Second milk round is around April/May and is mainly for internship opportunities. If you are an MBA student that calendar makes a lot of sense. You do the May milk round for an internship during your first year, and the Nov milk round for a full time job just when you start the second year.

I don't know how much support you get from the school. The people (MiF staff, alumni and current students) I've talked to sounded pretty calm about the whole process, since everyone gets placed one way or the other. Career services is pretty good and they start working with you even before you get a foot in London. They publish resume books, and try very hard to get you placed. But at the end of the day it's up to you to network your way into a decent job, or to present yourself to the prospective employers.

Also remember that many if not most MiF's are not after the jobs available in the milkround. The milkround is mostly for associate level positions, i.e. for fresh post-graduate degree holders. As MiFs tend to have prior finance experience, taking this kind of position would actually be a step down for them; many classmates are already at the VP level. These students find their jobs through recruiters and by networking with alumni.

c. You had recommended that it is always better to do an intern before joining MiF. How long should the internship be? How to go about getting an internship with an iBank? I am currently staying in India. What are the chances for me to get an internship with bulge bracker bank in one of the leading financial centres? ( In my knowledge, it is quite limited... :) Do give your views on this.

i-bank internships are hard to get. Here's why. Their internship applications close sometime in mid to late december. Even if you apply in Round 1 to LBS, you may not get a decision by then. And let me tell you that telling people you have an admission offer from LBS places some weight on your application. So do your best, apply as early as you can, even before the R1 deadline. That way you may apply to i-bank internships before they close.

How long? - I don't know. 2 months should be the bare minimum I think. It depends on the organization you are interning with, and they tend to determine the duration most of the time.

Internships are great if you can get them, but without the use of the career services office and milkround (which incoming MiFs unfortunately don't have) then they can be hard to come by. Finding one really comes down to your skills in networking and honestly, being in the right place at the right time. You might think that this difficulty can cast a shadow on your overall job prospects, but I think the lack of an internship will not kill your chances. Focus on finding your edge if an internship doesn't materialize, just like I mentioned above for the first question.

d. I have also read that networking is one of key aspects for getting a job in an ibank. With a 1 year program, and placements starting within the first few months of joining LBS ( MiF), how can one possibly network and get a job?

I am definitely not the right person to answer this question right now, but maybe within a year I'll have some first hand experience to share with you.

Here are what I know so far. There are school trips to NY, Hong Kong etc. I think it's important to attend those, since every time an employer shows up at the school people would be circling him like a flock of ants. I don't think that's the right way of networking your way into a job.

LBS has a ton of clubs for different interests, you can see the complete list link omitted. You should use these as tools to meet people in the industry that you normally would not be able to.

Networking is what you make of it. As AK said on campus presentations are not the best place usually because everyone in the room will swarm the poor guys/gals from the companies. I think the clubs are a great, perhaps the best way to network. Get involved! Helping to organize a club event often puts you face to face with potential employers. Also, remember that when you become a student you are given full access to the alumni database. Pick up the telephone.

e. I firmly believe that the courses that LBS offers is great. But will the coaching for the first few months at LBS MiF suffice to crack the technical ibanking interviews?

We'll see. But the assumption is you already come from a finance background anyways.

Also, there is nothing to stop you from a bit of self study before you come to London. Any professor who teaches the subject you have interest in can recommend a good book or 2 to crack open in your free time.

f. I understand that LBS has a terrific brand name. But somehow the finer details of the MiF course make me feel a bit sceptical.

Note: AK didn't adress this comment specifically
Like AK said above, most people involved in the program and current students are pretty calm. We were sceptical too, but talk to current students/alumni and you'll see that things really do seem to work out. The placement rate is very high for a reason, and I can say from first hand experience that LBS has weight with recruiters. At a job fair I attended a while back, my conversation with an HR person for a leading i-bank changed markedly as soon as I said I'm enrolling at LBS.

Hope this helps,


vS said...

Hi.. Thanks for sharing the info. I am planning to do my masters starting next year but am confused about choosing between a MBA and a M.Fin. The point I am confused on is that how different will my career prospects/salary prospects/growth prospects be in the I-Banking industry if I were to to a M.Fin (say from LBS) instead of a MBA? I currently work for an Indian subsidiary of an I-Bank and have a technical educational background.
I am not sure with how much certainty you can answer that but any feedback is most welcome. Thanks

Beeell said...

Very sorry for the long delay in answering; I've been tied up with my move to London and the start of the program.

To answer your question, it would depend on what type of work you would want to do and what type you do now. MiF is great for people that already have finance experience or experience that is strongly related to finance; so that the career jump is not as big. An MBA is great for a 180 degree switch as it allows for an intership. As to salary, growth prospects etc, I would say that the programs are about equal from what I have seen thus far.

Hope this helps

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